Monday, July 14, 2014
Saturday, August 27, 2011
Tuesday, March 15, 2011
Sitting here in my seat, my feet up on the desk
So, I have no more clients for today and have a couple hours to kill. And everyone else is on the clock so they are either busy or looking busy cuz that's what they get paid to do and I just had this moment of realization - I love being my own boss. When I am not working I don't gotta raise my stress level artifically to create work so that I can look busy and 'earn my pay'
Thanks,
Faz
Thanks,
Faz
Wednesday, January 19, 2011
What else did they tell you in Massage School
Massage Practice Builder
What did massage school tell you that turned out to be false information (if any?)
Autum M Kenney Only in admissions, after you've signed up, the instructors let you know exactly how broke we all are.
December 19, 2010 at 5:20pm · Like ·
Christine Vander Bloomen Lmt That massage pushes out the toxins and water helps flush them away.
December 19, 2010 at 5:23pm · Like · 7 people ·
Judith Smith The instructors definitely said we could charge $60 {one said over $90} and so long as we visualized success, {per the secret} we'd have full client rosters and be turning people away.
December 19, 2010 at 5:27pm · Like ·
Rebecca Hafkemeyer Lmt They said there was a wide range of what you could earn and would earn. My big resentment to this idea is that massage should not be looked at as how much you can make per hour but rather make a living while helping others. I am not saying ...
See More
December 19, 2010 at 5:39pm · Like · 7 people ·
Brigitte Thorn Technically, massage increases circulation which in turn strips out more toxin's than normal, but this also increases the rate of dehydration which is why people need to drink water after a massage.
December 19, 2010 at 5:40pm · Like · 1 person ·
Lynne Stiller @ Christine.....that one is so popular that clients quote it at me & it's hard to keep a straight face & not just fall over laughing....that one is right up there with 'more pressure will get the knots out' - like we're trying to iron the people flat...LOL
December 19, 2010 at 5:48pm · Like · 3 people ·
Joy Marcinkowski I was taught that people with cancer can not receive massage. I have since been certified in oncology massage and can give safe circulatory massage to cancer survivors (those who were and still are being treated).
December 19, 2010 at 5:51pm · Like · 8 people ·
Kenny Lyons Lmt I was fortunate enough to go through a program that was very up front about the difficulties we could face along with the possibilities. It started during the interview process and continued through graduation.
December 19, 2010 at 5:54pm · Like · 4 people ·
Christine Vander Bloomen Lmt Brigitte, there have been studies that disprove massage increases circulation. An article in Massage Today points this out. http://www.massagetoday.com/archives/2002/12/08.html
December 19, 2010 at 6:04pm · Like · 5 people ·
Christine Baker Lmt They let us know up front what all we would need that $60 an hour pay for. The only thing they told us that turned out to be false for me is that the franchises are nice about letting you pick your own schedule and guarantee you a full schedule. I do better filling my schedule being on my own and doing my own marketing.
December 19, 2010 at 6:04pm · Like ·
Christine Vander Bloomen Lmt I was also told not to massage pregnant clients while in the first trimester. I can't tell you how many regular clients I had that I found out were pregnant and by that time had numerous massages within their first trimester. I rarely turn away a first trimester mother. And, on the rare occation I have asked for a doctors slip, the client said the doctor thought it was nonsense.
December 19, 2010 at 6:07pm · Like · 5 people ·
Lynne Stiller I have known several cases where a first time pregnancy or someone with a problematic first trimester, after a massage within 2 or 3 days, the woman miscarried & one was at a location where I was at.
December 19, 2010 at 6:44pm · Like ·
Choice Kinchen 2 to 3 days after a massage and then a miscarriage.....kinda' hard to blame the therapist when so many other factors in 2-3 days could be to blame....plus,
December 19, 2010 at 7:10pm · Like · 3 people ·
Angela Rios @Lynne-those women would have miscarried whether they had received a massage or not. Massage does NOTHING that could possibly cause a miscarriage.
December 19, 2010 at 7:17pm · Like · 5 people ·
Kjol Lahti I see schools using the AMTA numbers of massage therapists making the same money as PTA's & OTA's and yet their own surveys should their therapists making $18,000 a year and not $29,000 a year.
December 19, 2010 at 7:20pm · Like · 1 person ·
Alice Sanvito "Technically, massage increases circulation which in turn strips out more toxin's than normal, but this also increases the rate of dehydration which is why people need to drink water after a massage." Bridgette - what Christine said.
December 19, 2010 at 7:29pm · Like · 3 people ·
Alan Segers Student of massage therapy here. I decided to get into this for reasons other than money, altho the earning potential was appealing as well.
December 19, 2010 at 8:05pm · Like · 1 person ·
Jessica Murphy Nothing I was told or taught was false. And I have made up to $60 an hour.
December 19, 2010 at 8:54pm · Like ·
Lester Barrows Christine had it dead on, the toxin/lactic acid thing actually bit me once when I was working on a PT during the school's clinic. Although she never mentioned anything about it, I'm sure she knew based on the reaction she had to the "explan...
December 19, 2010 at 9:13pm · Like ·
Carmella Zaic Patterson it was soooo many years ago...but the $60 an hour stands out..not when you take away all the $$ for rent, phone, lites, sheets, soap, oils, CE's, taxes,advertising etc etc etc.........aw common..not anywhere near 60 an hour..
December 19, 2010 at 9:43pm · Like · 1 person ·
Massage Practice Builder sorry I didn't ask my question right - I was continuing my last question on careers in massage. What did schools tell you about careers in massage that turned out to not be true or accurate? I am writing a book - Massage therapy careers - the truth about becoming a massage therapist (or something like that for the title!)
December 19, 2010 at 9:46pm · Like ·
Massage Practice Builder jessica- where did you make $60 an hour? what school did you go to?
December 19, 2010 at 9:47pm · Like ·
Ed Buresh It's been a long time since I was in school, but I don't remember anything
turning out to be false. Most non-technical information came in the form of stories and conjecture, and mostly what I find matches in some way. Of course, now that I...
See More
December 19, 2010 at 10:01pm · Like · 1 person ·
Alan Segers The school I am attending did not offer a specific amount that I can remember. I went into the initial consultation knowing the basic rate for a Swedish massage was on average $1/min.
December 19, 2010 at 10:02pm · Like ·
Lester Barrows Our school (NHI) was actually very realistic about expectations. There was a business class that broke down everything and explained just how much massage you'd need to do in order to make however much you wanted in a year. Which is largely why massage is not my only career, as I have a spouse to support.
December 19, 2010 at 10:03pm · Like ·
Cyra Briggs I was told I can make $60 or more but I have to be really good at it and be a detailed worker. Nobody is going to pay you that kind of money to spread oil on their body.
December 19, 2010 at 10:24pm · Like ·
Corenia Murphy At my school we were told that we would make a modest living and be able to do what we love. So far all true! I gave up a high paying corp job to become a LMP and have never looked back. Some things are just more importiant in life! I think there were some classmates that went into it for the money but making $60 an hour when you can only do x amount of massages a day just dosent add up....maybe math class & common sense should have been included in the prereques.
December 19, 2010 at 11:09pm · Like ·
Kimberly Wilson Rmt I can't imagine someone holding themselves to a 40 hour massage week 52 weeks of the year... and not burning out, or harming their own body.
December 19, 2010 at 11:50pm · Like ·
Alice Sanvito They didn't tell us much of anything career-wise. At least people are talking about that and thinking about that now. BTW, you all know this but there's a huge difference between what you charge and what you actually earn.
December 20, 2010 at 2:57am · Like ·
Jalene Johnson I dont' recall anything that I was taught being inaccurate. As far as toxins and circulation... I believe they said what the theories were and also said that there wasn't much research for it.
December 20, 2010 at 3:01am · Like · 1 person ·
Ed Buresh Choice - client began having severe symptoms 15 min post massage. True, one cannot say it was the massage, but the timing and rapid change in how she felt sticks in my mind none-the-less.
December 20, 2010 at 4:53am · Like ·
Ed Buresh What does everybody mean when they say "increased circulation?" Is it more quantity of blood to an area, faster flow of blood through an area, or more permeation of tissue? I'm with Jalene, reducing hypertonicity increases circulation in that area. If not, we would always be ischemic.
December 20, 2010 at 5:02am · Like ·
Ed Buresh I also notice a difference in how tissue responds depending on whether the person smokes or not. And I've been able to smell the smoke oozing from their pores as toxic gas.
December 20, 2010 at 5:18am · Like ·
Jessica Weagle I was told at the time I could get my license in CT. and that turned out to be a lie. At the time CT. did not reconzie the school I went to. That has since charged
December 20, 2010 at 11:33am · Like ·
Jalene Johnson Ed, that is a good point and you brought back a memory. I too was working on a smoker and the smell was so very strong. I didn't smell her before the massage, only when I got to her back which was the last part. So if that isn't toxins getting moved through and released then what is it!?
December 20, 2010 at 1:49pm · Like ·
Christine Vander Bloomen Lmt Jalene, most likely, it is simply the odor of the tobacco working it's way through her system. Did you know if you rub garlic on the bottom of your feet within a very short while you can smell garlic on your breath.
December 20, 2010 at 4:34pm · Like ·
Greg Bessmer @Christine Any more? I have learned a LOT with this one thread!!! Thanks everyone and Happy Holidays to all!
December 20, 2010 at 9:04pm · Like ·
Choice Kinchen Lynne, chill a little. No where was I misrepresenting you...I was merely stating I found it hard to believe that the therapist was being blamed....sheesh....
December 20, 2010 at 10:04pm · Like ·
What did massage school tell you that turned out to be false information (if any?)
Autum M Kenney Only in admissions, after you've signed up, the instructors let you know exactly how broke we all are.
December 19, 2010 at 5:20pm · Like ·
Christine Vander Bloomen Lmt That massage pushes out the toxins and water helps flush them away.
December 19, 2010 at 5:23pm · Like · 7 people ·
Judith Smith The instructors definitely said we could charge $60 {one said over $90} and so long as we visualized success, {per the secret} we'd have full client rosters and be turning people away.
December 19, 2010 at 5:27pm · Like ·
Rebecca Hafkemeyer Lmt They said there was a wide range of what you could earn and would earn. My big resentment to this idea is that massage should not be looked at as how much you can make per hour but rather make a living while helping others. I am not saying ...
See More
December 19, 2010 at 5:39pm · Like · 7 people ·
Brigitte Thorn Technically, massage increases circulation which in turn strips out more toxin's than normal, but this also increases the rate of dehydration which is why people need to drink water after a massage.
December 19, 2010 at 5:40pm · Like · 1 person ·
Lynne Stiller @ Christine.....that one is so popular that clients quote it at me & it's hard to keep a straight face & not just fall over laughing....that one is right up there with 'more pressure will get the knots out' - like we're trying to iron the people flat...LOL
December 19, 2010 at 5:48pm · Like · 3 people ·
Joy Marcinkowski I was taught that people with cancer can not receive massage. I have since been certified in oncology massage and can give safe circulatory massage to cancer survivors (those who were and still are being treated).
December 19, 2010 at 5:51pm · Like · 8 people ·
Kenny Lyons Lmt I was fortunate enough to go through a program that was very up front about the difficulties we could face along with the possibilities. It started during the interview process and continued through graduation.
December 19, 2010 at 5:54pm · Like · 4 people ·
Christine Vander Bloomen Lmt Brigitte, there have been studies that disprove massage increases circulation. An article in Massage Today points this out. http://www.massagetoday.com/archives/2002/12/08.html
December 19, 2010 at 6:04pm · Like · 5 people ·
Christine Baker Lmt They let us know up front what all we would need that $60 an hour pay for. The only thing they told us that turned out to be false for me is that the franchises are nice about letting you pick your own schedule and guarantee you a full schedule. I do better filling my schedule being on my own and doing my own marketing.
December 19, 2010 at 6:04pm · Like ·
Christine Vander Bloomen Lmt I was also told not to massage pregnant clients while in the first trimester. I can't tell you how many regular clients I had that I found out were pregnant and by that time had numerous massages within their first trimester. I rarely turn away a first trimester mother. And, on the rare occation I have asked for a doctors slip, the client said the doctor thought it was nonsense.
December 19, 2010 at 6:07pm · Like · 5 people ·
Lynne Stiller I have known several cases where a first time pregnancy or someone with a problematic first trimester, after a massage within 2 or 3 days, the woman miscarried & one was at a location where I was at.
December 19, 2010 at 6:44pm · Like ·
Choice Kinchen 2 to 3 days after a massage and then a miscarriage.....kinda' hard to blame the therapist when so many other factors in 2-3 days could be to blame....plus,
December 19, 2010 at 7:10pm · Like · 3 people ·
Angela Rios @Lynne-those women would have miscarried whether they had received a massage or not. Massage does NOTHING that could possibly cause a miscarriage.
December 19, 2010 at 7:17pm · Like · 5 people ·
Kjol Lahti I see schools using the AMTA numbers of massage therapists making the same money as PTA's & OTA's and yet their own surveys should their therapists making $18,000 a year and not $29,000 a year.
December 19, 2010 at 7:20pm · Like · 1 person ·
Alice Sanvito "Technically, massage increases circulation which in turn strips out more toxin's than normal, but this also increases the rate of dehydration which is why people need to drink water after a massage." Bridgette - what Christine said.
December 19, 2010 at 7:29pm · Like · 3 people ·
Alan Segers Student of massage therapy here. I decided to get into this for reasons other than money, altho the earning potential was appealing as well.
December 19, 2010 at 8:05pm · Like · 1 person ·
Jessica Murphy Nothing I was told or taught was false. And I have made up to $60 an hour.
December 19, 2010 at 8:54pm · Like ·
Lester Barrows Christine had it dead on, the toxin/lactic acid thing actually bit me once when I was working on a PT during the school's clinic. Although she never mentioned anything about it, I'm sure she knew based on the reaction she had to the "explan...
December 19, 2010 at 9:13pm · Like ·
Carmella Zaic Patterson it was soooo many years ago...but the $60 an hour stands out..not when you take away all the $$ for rent, phone, lites, sheets, soap, oils, CE's, taxes,advertising etc etc etc.........aw common..not anywhere near 60 an hour..
December 19, 2010 at 9:43pm · Like · 1 person ·
Massage Practice Builder sorry I didn't ask my question right - I was continuing my last question on careers in massage. What did schools tell you about careers in massage that turned out to not be true or accurate? I am writing a book - Massage therapy careers - the truth about becoming a massage therapist (or something like that for the title!)
December 19, 2010 at 9:46pm · Like ·
Massage Practice Builder jessica- where did you make $60 an hour? what school did you go to?
December 19, 2010 at 9:47pm · Like ·
Ed Buresh It's been a long time since I was in school, but I don't remember anything
turning out to be false. Most non-technical information came in the form of stories and conjecture, and mostly what I find matches in some way. Of course, now that I...
See More
December 19, 2010 at 10:01pm · Like · 1 person ·
Alan Segers The school I am attending did not offer a specific amount that I can remember. I went into the initial consultation knowing the basic rate for a Swedish massage was on average $1/min.
December 19, 2010 at 10:02pm · Like ·
Lester Barrows Our school (NHI) was actually very realistic about expectations. There was a business class that broke down everything and explained just how much massage you'd need to do in order to make however much you wanted in a year. Which is largely why massage is not my only career, as I have a spouse to support.
December 19, 2010 at 10:03pm · Like ·
Cyra Briggs I was told I can make $60 or more but I have to be really good at it and be a detailed worker. Nobody is going to pay you that kind of money to spread oil on their body.
December 19, 2010 at 10:24pm · Like ·
Corenia Murphy At my school we were told that we would make a modest living and be able to do what we love. So far all true! I gave up a high paying corp job to become a LMP and have never looked back. Some things are just more importiant in life! I think there were some classmates that went into it for the money but making $60 an hour when you can only do x amount of massages a day just dosent add up....maybe math class & common sense should have been included in the prereques.
December 19, 2010 at 11:09pm · Like ·
Kimberly Wilson Rmt I can't imagine someone holding themselves to a 40 hour massage week 52 weeks of the year... and not burning out, or harming their own body.
December 19, 2010 at 11:50pm · Like ·
Alice Sanvito They didn't tell us much of anything career-wise. At least people are talking about that and thinking about that now. BTW, you all know this but there's a huge difference between what you charge and what you actually earn.
December 20, 2010 at 2:57am · Like ·
Jalene Johnson I dont' recall anything that I was taught being inaccurate. As far as toxins and circulation... I believe they said what the theories were and also said that there wasn't much research for it.
December 20, 2010 at 3:01am · Like · 1 person ·
Ed Buresh Choice - client began having severe symptoms 15 min post massage. True, one cannot say it was the massage, but the timing and rapid change in how she felt sticks in my mind none-the-less.
December 20, 2010 at 4:53am · Like ·
Ed Buresh What does everybody mean when they say "increased circulation?" Is it more quantity of blood to an area, faster flow of blood through an area, or more permeation of tissue? I'm with Jalene, reducing hypertonicity increases circulation in that area. If not, we would always be ischemic.
December 20, 2010 at 5:02am · Like ·
Ed Buresh I also notice a difference in how tissue responds depending on whether the person smokes or not. And I've been able to smell the smoke oozing from their pores as toxic gas.
December 20, 2010 at 5:18am · Like ·
Jessica Weagle I was told at the time I could get my license in CT. and that turned out to be a lie. At the time CT. did not reconzie the school I went to. That has since charged
December 20, 2010 at 11:33am · Like ·
Jalene Johnson Ed, that is a good point and you brought back a memory. I too was working on a smoker and the smell was so very strong. I didn't smell her before the massage, only when I got to her back which was the last part. So if that isn't toxins getting moved through and released then what is it!?
December 20, 2010 at 1:49pm · Like ·
Christine Vander Bloomen Lmt Jalene, most likely, it is simply the odor of the tobacco working it's way through her system. Did you know if you rub garlic on the bottom of your feet within a very short while you can smell garlic on your breath.
December 20, 2010 at 4:34pm · Like ·
Greg Bessmer @Christine Any more? I have learned a LOT with this one thread!!! Thanks everyone and Happy Holidays to all!
December 20, 2010 at 9:04pm · Like ·
Choice Kinchen Lynne, chill a little. No where was I misrepresenting you...I was merely stating I found it hard to believe that the therapist was being blamed....sheesh....
December 20, 2010 at 10:04pm · Like ·
Monday, December 27, 2010
What they never told me in massage school
1. You may get fat!!
There will be a stretch where you will work 8 hours a day. Your body will adapt and you will start eating like you work 8 hours. But then will come a stretch where you will work 2 hours and will still eat like you work 8 hours.
2. Without structure - You may fall apart
After two years and 2400 hours of rigid structure, you will suddenly be in this state of flux where every day will be dramatically different - With every unbooked hour or every cancellation you will find yourself struggling to fill time in a schedule you don't necessarily control.
You will resort to binge eating or wandering aimlessly through the shopping mall, waiting for/with patien(t)ce.... You could study or market but something about the angry feeling you have that someone cancelled at the last moment will prevent you.
3. Everybody will protect their turf
If you work with a physio - they will tell you - we do joint mobs, not you
If you work with a kin - they will tell you - we give exercise, not you
If you work with a chiro - they will tell you - we adjust for posture, not you
There will be a stretch where you will work 8 hours a day. Your body will adapt and you will start eating like you work 8 hours. But then will come a stretch where you will work 2 hours and will still eat like you work 8 hours.
2. Without structure - You may fall apart
After two years and 2400 hours of rigid structure, you will suddenly be in this state of flux where every day will be dramatically different - With every unbooked hour or every cancellation you will find yourself struggling to fill time in a schedule you don't necessarily control.
You will resort to binge eating or wandering aimlessly through the shopping mall, waiting for/with patien(t)ce.... You could study or market but something about the angry feeling you have that someone cancelled at the last moment will prevent you.
3. Everybody will protect their turf
If you work with a physio - they will tell you - we do joint mobs, not you
If you work with a kin - they will tell you - we give exercise, not you
If you work with a chiro - they will tell you - we adjust for posture, not you
Saturday, December 11, 2010
Pain
Michelle Doyle
One definition of pain is... "an unpleasant sensation occurring in varying degrees of severity as a consequence of injury, disease or emotional disorder". A reader states, "Just because pain isn't felt, doesn't mean it isn't there." Based on this definition, doesn't pain have to be felt, to exist? Can pain exist apart from the nervous system? What's actually happening physiologically? Anyone want to sound off?
Yesterday at 12:45pm · Like · Comment
2 people like this.
Gerlinde Bowen Pain, in itself is hard to define. What causes it and why do we feel it? It may be a lack of nerve patterns having their normal feed of flow from the current that keeps us otherwise in balance. No current, no impulses, dead nerve ending. Pain.
Yesterday at 1:02pm · Like · 1 person
Dianna Linden On the one hand your invocation brought up that ole contemplation if a tree falls in the woods and no being is there to hear is there a sound?...interdependence.
I read that reader's original comment and thought about a process of dissociation that can, perhaps should, occur for people in chronic pain as a method of shifting awareness away from feeling it. Just because it's there doesn't mean you have to attend to it.
Erickson and his students, including the NLP guys used dissociation in hypnosis as a coping strategy for folks in pain. Does bring up some interesting contemplations as to whether the mind is entirely situated in the brain and nervous system or are those possibly the hardware mechanisms of something more vast in the software dept.
I've used dissociation effectively in the past to escape from the pain of having IUDs installed and removed, but couldn't find a way to do it effectively when I went thru 2 1/2 years of pretty horrific dental work. Reason being, I was slurping my awareness up into my head when the IUD stuff was happening, but when the dental stuff was happening, I couldn't find a way out of the head. I didn't know where to go to escape those sounds, invasive procedures in my mouth.
One young resident told me to bring in my ipod, some good music, we'd discuss at the beginning anything we might need to decide, then I could go off into the music for the rest of the time. That worked. Choose the right music.
;>)
Yesterday at 1:04pm · Like
Stefan Chmelik The opposite of disassociation is Mindfulness: observing a pain with equanimity also renders it non problematic.
Yesterday at 1:44pm · Like · 1 person
Dianna Linden Interesting proposal Stefan, but I'm not sure I'd agree that mindfulness is the opposite of hypnotic dissociation, certainly different.
I think there are many methods of meditation and they create different effects, but they might be more complimentary than opposite, in intention and effect. I'm quite interested in meditation and have studied/practiced several forms of it as well as studied/experienced a bit of Ericksonian hypnosis.
I will readily admit that my ability to drop into meditative absorption is not as advanced or stabilized as many of the teachers I've sat with. If I were adept enough at stabilizing equanimity in mindfulness then I would have been able to stay outside the meditation room at Tassajara Zen Center in that swarm of mosquitoes eating me and meditated peacefully right through it. I'd gotten a bit lost and arrived slightly late to a locked door at the zendo itself, so thought I'd try sitting just outside and following along with the goup from the porch bench. I only lasted several minutes before I was so distracted by the high pitched zinging sounds swarming round my head and itching bites that I decided to go to the baths and continue my efforts there. My powers of observation and equipoise were smaller than that swarm's amplitude.
I'm not sure how much physical pain you've actually experienced in life and successfully used equanimity to render non problematic, but our skill levels vary and in some cases, like a couple of births I attended and assisted with, dissociation was a much more effective mindfulness method than attempting to support making space for those intense bursts of pain using equanimity and awareness.
Listening without labeling meditation as I've been instructed in it (Vietnamese zen lineage) is very useful to quiet the judgmental mind, more effective in my experience than a visual focus. Vipassana directs the mind inward, looking for that fictitious self we all believe so definitively in, in a completely different way than some yogic methods of breathing direct us inward thru the colors of the chakras, quite like those Taoist methods described in "The Secret of the Golden Flower" by Wilhelm. The effects are different too, but are they opposite?
Not so sure bout that. I do know tho that, speaking for myself, there are limits to the quantity of mosquitoes surrounding me I can rest in equanimity with as there are with magnitudes of pain. In those cases, I find it useful to have other tools to use while I'm working on getting better at stabilizing equipoise. In my experience, it ain't always as easy as you make it sound.
Yesterday at 2:30pm · Like
Carley Fardell Can you wise folks recommend to me (a new DC) a type of hypnosis that works best for chronic pain patients? I would like to investigate the benefits of hypnois but am having a difficult time knowing where to go. Perhaps you know of a good therapist in the South Bay! Thanks in advance and thank you so very much for your though provoking posts :)
Yesterday at 3:00pm · Like
Dianna Linden Which bay would that be south of? Here in Santa Monica, that would be Redondo or Hermosa Beach.
;>)
Yesterday at 3:28pm · Like
Michelle Doyle I believe Carley is in the San Jose area...
Yesterday at 3:42pm · Like
Dianna Linden Ummmm, not knowing anyone off hand in that area, will inquire. Erickson taught at Stanford and Bandler and Grinder studied with him there, if my memory serves, and with Virginia Satir. I'll ask around.
One of the best places to learn and pr...
See More
Yesterday at 4:00pm · Like
Fred Nehring Carley, I worked with Dr. Lee Overholser for 2yrs. He was my mentor. He taught me alot about hynosis and bodywork. He is in San Diego, CA but might be able to provide you with a resourse in San Jose http://www.hypnosispower.com/aboutdroverholser.php
Yesterday at 5:02pm · Like
Karen Nielsen If pain exists apart from a nervous system, then we have to feel guilty about what we do to all the little yeasts when we make bread and whatnot. I vote you need at least a rudimentary central nervous system to qualify to feel pain - like if not a brain then at least a ganglion.
Yesterday at 5:45pm · Like
Stefan Chmelik Dianna, I was suggesting that it is simple, not that it is easy.
Yesterday at 6:06pm · Like
Gerlinde Bowen Since I am a practicing Reflexologist,this does not mean that I am immune to bodyly conjectures like everyone else is. What amazes me is the nerve pattern correolation, as it is. I have these sciatic bouts, every so often they creep up. Got out of my car today, bam there it was, that pain, pretty good one too. Immediatly found the corresponding point on my hand, held it steady as I was walking to where i was going. Two minutes later. Presto, pain was gone for good.
Yesterday at 7:19pm · Like
Jason Erickson Reminds me of an article in Best Life - a men's magazine. It had an article on how emotion and neurophysiology impact pain sensitivity. The core message is that pain sensitivity was largely a result of emotional reaction to the pain sensation. Patients with brain damage effecting emotional response could feel pain, but it didn't bother them.
This also helps explain why I and many of my martial arts friends have reduced pain sensitivity. We feel it, but it generally doesn't bother us like it used to. It doesn't arouse the same emotional reaction unless we understand it represents damage more significant than we might normally experience in practice.
21 hours ago · Like · 2 people
Gerlinde Bowen Unless, there is the pain response that is sudden. For instance if you were to break or sprain your foot. We are all so delicate when it comes down to it.
13 hours ago · Like
Michelle Doyle Hey, what's happen to my wall to post on...is evreyone missing their wall...can comment but no wall to post on??
9 hours ago · Like
Joanne Greenfield Ah man! Where's my name? I can't believe you quoted me without quoting 'me'.
8 hours ago · Like
Phil Greenfield Pain has one function. To get our attention!
8 hours ago · Like
Phil Greenfield @Jason. Nice post. My teacher encourages us during standing on stake exercises to clearly delineate between 'structural pain' ("ouch") and 'emotional pain' ("I hate this posture don't you know I have far more important things to be doing right now in fact I hate you I don't know why ever signed up for this class!"). When the emotional component (desire for things to be other than they actually are in the moment) is acknowledged consciously, the mind returns to attending to the structural stability of the body, and the 'ouch' definitely lessens. More attention, more sensitivity, more finesse, better structure, more deep relaxation into bone as a support, less muscular tension, less pain.
I muse that in many chronic pain situations, this distancing of the mind from the present moment is a major factor in both worsening and prolonging the situation. Acceptance (perversely) seems to be a major step in initiating the recovery process. Bringing the attention of the mind deeply toward the sensations of the body structural is akin to a well-tacked sail, where the structure of the sail and the energy of the wind are relating well, propelling the boat along its path in an optimal way.
7 hours ago · Like · 2 people
Karen Nielsen Now at the top under "share" you have to hit the "status" icon to get the little posting box.
7 hours ago · Like
Michelle Doyle Thanks, Karen...gee, FB keeps changing without any warning. I suppose we will have to all switch to the 'new profile' page eventually...
7 hours ago · Like
Michelle Doyle Yeah, Joanne, I thought you would want me to keep your identitiy private out of respect...but, I guess not.
So, just to let everyone know this post is a continiuation of the Dec. 7th post...wanted to make it a separate post to explore pain i...
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7 hours ago · Like
Jerry Hesch Michelle,
I do believe that pain does not have to be conscious in order to impact the individual. I have much better pain control, yet prolonged sitting such as when on travel impacts my nervous system such that sleep is impaired. Some medications and supplements take out the emotional aspect, the suffering aspect, yet there is still a dysaesthesia that is perhaps unpleasant or simply non-normative. I am too tired to wax poetic but i think that concepts like Korr's facilitated segment support this. wish i could articulate more clearly...
best
j
One definition of pain is... "an unpleasant sensation occurring in varying degrees of severity as a consequence of injury, disease or emotional disorder". A reader states, "Just because pain isn't felt, doesn't mean it isn't there." Based on this definition, doesn't pain have to be felt, to exist? Can pain exist apart from the nervous system? What's actually happening physiologically? Anyone want to sound off?
Yesterday at 12:45pm · Like · Comment
2 people like this.
Gerlinde Bowen Pain, in itself is hard to define. What causes it and why do we feel it? It may be a lack of nerve patterns having their normal feed of flow from the current that keeps us otherwise in balance. No current, no impulses, dead nerve ending. Pain.
Yesterday at 1:02pm · Like · 1 person
Dianna Linden On the one hand your invocation brought up that ole contemplation if a tree falls in the woods and no being is there to hear is there a sound?...interdependence.
I read that reader's original comment and thought about a process of dissociation that can, perhaps should, occur for people in chronic pain as a method of shifting awareness away from feeling it. Just because it's there doesn't mean you have to attend to it.
Erickson and his students, including the NLP guys used dissociation in hypnosis as a coping strategy for folks in pain. Does bring up some interesting contemplations as to whether the mind is entirely situated in the brain and nervous system or are those possibly the hardware mechanisms of something more vast in the software dept.
I've used dissociation effectively in the past to escape from the pain of having IUDs installed and removed, but couldn't find a way to do it effectively when I went thru 2 1/2 years of pretty horrific dental work. Reason being, I was slurping my awareness up into my head when the IUD stuff was happening, but when the dental stuff was happening, I couldn't find a way out of the head. I didn't know where to go to escape those sounds, invasive procedures in my mouth.
One young resident told me to bring in my ipod, some good music, we'd discuss at the beginning anything we might need to decide, then I could go off into the music for the rest of the time. That worked. Choose the right music.
;>)
Yesterday at 1:04pm · Like
Stefan Chmelik The opposite of disassociation is Mindfulness: observing a pain with equanimity also renders it non problematic.
Yesterday at 1:44pm · Like · 1 person
Dianna Linden Interesting proposal Stefan, but I'm not sure I'd agree that mindfulness is the opposite of hypnotic dissociation, certainly different.
I think there are many methods of meditation and they create different effects, but they might be more complimentary than opposite, in intention and effect. I'm quite interested in meditation and have studied/practiced several forms of it as well as studied/experienced a bit of Ericksonian hypnosis.
I will readily admit that my ability to drop into meditative absorption is not as advanced or stabilized as many of the teachers I've sat with. If I were adept enough at stabilizing equanimity in mindfulness then I would have been able to stay outside the meditation room at Tassajara Zen Center in that swarm of mosquitoes eating me and meditated peacefully right through it. I'd gotten a bit lost and arrived slightly late to a locked door at the zendo itself, so thought I'd try sitting just outside and following along with the goup from the porch bench. I only lasted several minutes before I was so distracted by the high pitched zinging sounds swarming round my head and itching bites that I decided to go to the baths and continue my efforts there. My powers of observation and equipoise were smaller than that swarm's amplitude.
I'm not sure how much physical pain you've actually experienced in life and successfully used equanimity to render non problematic, but our skill levels vary and in some cases, like a couple of births I attended and assisted with, dissociation was a much more effective mindfulness method than attempting to support making space for those intense bursts of pain using equanimity and awareness.
Listening without labeling meditation as I've been instructed in it (Vietnamese zen lineage) is very useful to quiet the judgmental mind, more effective in my experience than a visual focus. Vipassana directs the mind inward, looking for that fictitious self we all believe so definitively in, in a completely different way than some yogic methods of breathing direct us inward thru the colors of the chakras, quite like those Taoist methods described in "The Secret of the Golden Flower" by Wilhelm. The effects are different too, but are they opposite?
Not so sure bout that. I do know tho that, speaking for myself, there are limits to the quantity of mosquitoes surrounding me I can rest in equanimity with as there are with magnitudes of pain. In those cases, I find it useful to have other tools to use while I'm working on getting better at stabilizing equipoise. In my experience, it ain't always as easy as you make it sound.
Yesterday at 2:30pm · Like
Carley Fardell Can you wise folks recommend to me (a new DC) a type of hypnosis that works best for chronic pain patients? I would like to investigate the benefits of hypnois but am having a difficult time knowing where to go. Perhaps you know of a good therapist in the South Bay! Thanks in advance and thank you so very much for your though provoking posts :)
Yesterday at 3:00pm · Like
Dianna Linden Which bay would that be south of? Here in Santa Monica, that would be Redondo or Hermosa Beach.
;>)
Yesterday at 3:28pm · Like
Michelle Doyle I believe Carley is in the San Jose area...
Yesterday at 3:42pm · Like
Dianna Linden Ummmm, not knowing anyone off hand in that area, will inquire. Erickson taught at Stanford and Bandler and Grinder studied with him there, if my memory serves, and with Virginia Satir. I'll ask around.
One of the best places to learn and pr...
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Yesterday at 4:00pm · Like
Fred Nehring Carley, I worked with Dr. Lee Overholser for 2yrs. He was my mentor. He taught me alot about hynosis and bodywork. He is in San Diego, CA but might be able to provide you with a resourse in San Jose http://www.hypnosispower.com/aboutdroverholser.php
Yesterday at 5:02pm · Like
Karen Nielsen If pain exists apart from a nervous system, then we have to feel guilty about what we do to all the little yeasts when we make bread and whatnot. I vote you need at least a rudimentary central nervous system to qualify to feel pain - like if not a brain then at least a ganglion.
Yesterday at 5:45pm · Like
Stefan Chmelik Dianna, I was suggesting that it is simple, not that it is easy.
Yesterday at 6:06pm · Like
Gerlinde Bowen Since I am a practicing Reflexologist,this does not mean that I am immune to bodyly conjectures like everyone else is. What amazes me is the nerve pattern correolation, as it is. I have these sciatic bouts, every so often they creep up. Got out of my car today, bam there it was, that pain, pretty good one too. Immediatly found the corresponding point on my hand, held it steady as I was walking to where i was going. Two minutes later. Presto, pain was gone for good.
Yesterday at 7:19pm · Like
Jason Erickson Reminds me of an article in Best Life - a men's magazine. It had an article on how emotion and neurophysiology impact pain sensitivity. The core message is that pain sensitivity was largely a result of emotional reaction to the pain sensation. Patients with brain damage effecting emotional response could feel pain, but it didn't bother them.
This also helps explain why I and many of my martial arts friends have reduced pain sensitivity. We feel it, but it generally doesn't bother us like it used to. It doesn't arouse the same emotional reaction unless we understand it represents damage more significant than we might normally experience in practice.
21 hours ago · Like · 2 people
Gerlinde Bowen Unless, there is the pain response that is sudden. For instance if you were to break or sprain your foot. We are all so delicate when it comes down to it.
13 hours ago · Like
Michelle Doyle Hey, what's happen to my wall to post on...is evreyone missing their wall...can comment but no wall to post on??
9 hours ago · Like
Joanne Greenfield Ah man! Where's my name? I can't believe you quoted me without quoting 'me'.
8 hours ago · Like
Phil Greenfield Pain has one function. To get our attention!
8 hours ago · Like
Phil Greenfield @Jason. Nice post. My teacher encourages us during standing on stake exercises to clearly delineate between 'structural pain' ("ouch") and 'emotional pain' ("I hate this posture don't you know I have far more important things to be doing right now in fact I hate you I don't know why ever signed up for this class!"). When the emotional component (desire for things to be other than they actually are in the moment) is acknowledged consciously, the mind returns to attending to the structural stability of the body, and the 'ouch' definitely lessens. More attention, more sensitivity, more finesse, better structure, more deep relaxation into bone as a support, less muscular tension, less pain.
I muse that in many chronic pain situations, this distancing of the mind from the present moment is a major factor in both worsening and prolonging the situation. Acceptance (perversely) seems to be a major step in initiating the recovery process. Bringing the attention of the mind deeply toward the sensations of the body structural is akin to a well-tacked sail, where the structure of the sail and the energy of the wind are relating well, propelling the boat along its path in an optimal way.
7 hours ago · Like · 2 people
Karen Nielsen Now at the top under "share" you have to hit the "status" icon to get the little posting box.
7 hours ago · Like
Michelle Doyle Thanks, Karen...gee, FB keeps changing without any warning. I suppose we will have to all switch to the 'new profile' page eventually...
7 hours ago · Like
Michelle Doyle Yeah, Joanne, I thought you would want me to keep your identitiy private out of respect...but, I guess not.
So, just to let everyone know this post is a continiuation of the Dec. 7th post...wanted to make it a separate post to explore pain i...
See More
7 hours ago · Like
Jerry Hesch Michelle,
I do believe that pain does not have to be conscious in order to impact the individual. I have much better pain control, yet prolonged sitting such as when on travel impacts my nervous system such that sleep is impaired. Some medications and supplements take out the emotional aspect, the suffering aspect, yet there is still a dysaesthesia that is perhaps unpleasant or simply non-normative. I am too tired to wax poetic but i think that concepts like Korr's facilitated segment support this. wish i could articulate more clearly...
best
j
Tuesday, September 7, 2010
Total profit after two months as an RMT
After two months as a registered massage therapist -
Total profit $6.66 -
It's all uphill from here!!
Total profit $6.66 -
It's all uphill from here!!
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